326 ELECTRIC VEHICLES This has not been done before. Until this is done, really, you don't have any sound basis upon which to effectuate a breakthrough as you are suggesting as to what you should do about it. Senator BAYH. We certainly know what the relative short-term effects of pollution can be. I am glad that you agree that the position of industry should be to try to do a whole job instead of just keeping up. Mr. DUNLOP. I think, as has been indicated here earlier today, that you have to look at the whole environmental situation. I directed my remarks essentially to the proposed legislation that is inherent in S. 451 and S. 453. Senator BAYH. Let me ask you, as far as industry is concerned, a couple of quick technically oriented questions. Hearings were held in Detroit. There was a comment made that the presence of lead in gasoline was inhibiting the use of the catalytic type of muffler for more advanced emission control. Would you care to comment on that? Mr. DUNLOP. I would comment that lead is one of the components of gasoline that is under review in this study regarding all of the components. This is one of the things that we hope to develop. Whether lead is a factor that does give rise to problems in the catalytic muffler, I think this is something frankly that we have got to do a good deal of research on and develop our conclusions on. Senator BAYH. One of the problems that I think concerns us in the Congress is the economic impact of a possible major change in transportation, locomotive power. We have received some testimony indicating that research is being done concerning the utilization of hydrocarbons from petroleum products in the fuel cell. Could you describe this in a little more detail, or are you aware of this type of reseaich? Mr. DUNLOP. Yes, I am. Senator BAYH. Have you had any results yet? Mr. DUNLOP. I am only familiar essentially with the work that our own company has done thus far. It has been modest in its character. I am only speaking now for my company. It has not been satisfactory to any appreciable degree at this point in time. I wouldn't want you to take that as a controlling statement, because I am sure that other people who are much more deeply involved in that effort than we have been would be able to give you frankly a broader conclusion than I am able to give you. Senator BAYTH. Thank you very much, sir. My colleagues in the minority, forgive me if I call on the majority member, Senator Morton. [Laughter.] Senator MORTON. You are looking 2 years ahead, artner. [Laughter.] I am sorry I didn't get here in time for your statement, Mr. Dunlop, but I heard the questioning of my colleague, Senator Cotton, and I have had an opportunity to read your statement. I commend you for your statement. I merely want to say that I am in full agreement with the conclusion that I draw from your statement, that we will make better and faster progress with the petroleum industry and in the automotive industry, with work such as is being done at the Hazleton Laboratories, than if