ELECTRIC VEHICLES 325 * We talked about 800 and 900 parts per million down to 280 parts per million. The Bureau testimony deals in percentages. You said a moment ago in response to the question of Senator Cotton that you thought one of these days we could get down to 10 percent. You mentioned that you think that the role of Government is to set the standards and then the petroleum industry and the automobile industries will conform to the standards. It concerns me that this whole business is sort of a negative approach, just barely "trying to keep up" approach. Have you given any consideration to a basic breakthrough in the research development? Why should industry say, or Government state that, we are going to shoot for a 10-percent job? Mr. DuNLOP. In answer to your question, I think it is incumbent upon Government to set a standard that has some realism to the facts of life, frankly, as to what can be accomplished. And then I think it is up to industry to continue its effort because the thrust of my.statement-I hope I make myself clear-is that we want a clean engine. Senator BAYH. I understand. Mr. DUNLOP.We are not desirous of going halfway, two-thirds of the way, or 90 percent of the way. We want to go to that point where there will be no injury. Senator BAYH. My concern is that in the last 10 years there was a 50-percent increase in automobiles. In the next 10 years we will have another 50-percent increase in automobiles. We are going to spend a lot of money in research, Government and industry, in trying to keep up, to stay just above the margin of safety. Whereas if we would start now to direct at least a significant portion of our research to a breakthrough that would solve this problem on a much greater scale, we might save significant amounts. Mr. DUNLOP. I think this is the effort. I don't think that the automobile industry or oil industry is content, let us say, to pace ourselves in relation to Government standards. I think this is a tremendous problem, a tremendous undertaking. Our effort is directed to the point to produce the ultimate objective to which we referred here; namely, a clean engine, a satisfactory engine that the American people will have no concern with in this particular regard. Frankly, you can't accomplish everything in a very short period of time. There are a lot of facets to this problem. You have to first identify the problem. And frankly, not all the problems have been identified with the degree of certainty that would be desirable. These are in the process of being identified. Take this study to which I referred that is being done at the Hazleton Laboratories. This has become commonly known as the synergistic effects study. Little is known, in fact practically nothing is done about the cummulative effect of an exposure to these various pollutants in their cummulative effect. In other words, if an individual is exposed to unburned hydrocarbons, if he is exposed to oxides of sulfur, exposed to oxides of nitrogen, what is the influence on the health of that individual? That is the thrust of that study in order to determine whether there is a synergistic effect.