324 ELECTRIC VEHICLES exaggerated-that automotive safety wasn't a selling point; that you couldn't sell safety to the public. I don't quite believe that. But it is rather difficult to sell automobiles and get Mr. A to choose between X car and Y car because X car has convinced him that it emits less pollutants. Therefore, in this field there is no real problem of trade secrets as between various builders of automobiles or better various oil companies, is there? Mr. DUNLOP. Senator; I think if the standards are set, then under our system of enterprise you will have various companies seeking by various means to accomplish those standards. One company might develop a procedure or an engine that would meet that standard and would be less costly than another. This is one of the reasons that I would espouse the cause of private research on it, because you might get proprietary developments out of that situation which would still meet the standards but would give the particular organization that had developed this technique or this hardware an advantage in terms of cost and in satisfaction. Senator CorromN. How far, and how soon, will one automobile manufacturing company share its progress and the means of progress with the rest so it will bring about this safety result? Mr. DUNLoP. That would be difficult to say. I am sure that the automobile industry is under very competitive compulsion, if you will, and I think if one company develops it and meets the Government standard, the other company would have one of several alternatives. They would either have to mount a similar program themselves or go out and get a license from the company that had developed, if they had a patentable situation on it. The record today is pretty clear. Take the matter of the unburned hydrocarbons. Various companies have come up with different answers. They are constantly perfecting those. So that basically no company has particularly enjoyed an. advantage over the others. Senator CorroN. Somewhere along the line in our deliberations some Members of the Congress are going to argue that the Federal Government should do this research in order that all automobiles, every vehicle on the road, shall immediately and at once have the full benefit of every means that can be taken to reduce pollutants. What I am trying to find out is how far will competition delay the universal sharing of solutions if it is left to the private sector? Mr. DUNLOP. I would come back to the basic point we have been discussing; namely, if the Government sets the standards, then the automobile companies will .produce the engine, we will produce the fuel that will make it possible to realize those standards. I think the record of the past clearly indicates that the various companies competing one with another have accomplished just the type of record you are anxious to see realized. Senator CorroN. 1hank you. I am sorry to have taken so much time. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And I thank you again, Macy, for an excellent statement. Mr. DUNLOP. Thank you. Senator BAYH. Mr. Dunlop, let me pursue a statement which I feel is basic to this whole study that was presented by my colleague from New Hampshire; namely, how far can you go.